Author	Topic:   Tuesdays and Thursdays
Tom	posted 9/3/08 9:18 AM     Consensus seems to be to carry on with the Thursday training ride but have the Tuesday run alongside it. If any beginners are coming down direct them to the Tuesday as they can come to the club afterwards. So it's 6.45 Little Chef, Little Eaton both days.
Jon OB	posted 9/3/08 10:26 AM     There was talk last night of having one day quicker than the other, or are you planning both the same pace? Suppose it depends on who turns up. Also re the time, what time does everyone get home from work and stuff? I wait for an hour before coming out, if others do the same, what about making it earlier (also it'll be lighter as the nights draw in). If people can't make it any earlier no probs, just a thought.
Chris	posted 9/3/08 11:04 AM     Current time best for me, if I'm back from work earlier I tend to go for a spin.
Tom	posted 9/3/08 1:34 PM     With speed it's down to who turns up - we tried controlling the pace in the past and it doesn't work unless that is what people want. Tell beginners to come down on Tuesday as then they can come to the club room and sign up though - it might also mean that if there are more steady riders on Tuesday that the overall pace is lower or there is a second group. Time is tricky - 6.45 seems traditional, gives most people a chance to get back from work and it fits in with going back to the clubroom.
Dave L	posted 9/3/08 3:21 PM       I agree with Tom on the speed thing. If a newbee turns up who is steady, they would very quickly be put off if they were greeted by a bunch of fast lads on a chain gang mission.I think that maintaining the steady squadron on a Tuesday is vital, with Thursday becoming known for its focus on faster 'team' riding.
Harvey	posted 9/3/08 6:50 PM       For what its worth, I think keeping the pace steady on a Tuesday is a good idea. Keep it strictly riding in twos, spinning in little ring, 18 - 20mph, 5 mins on the front each, then swing off. The beginners should be able to keep up in the same group whilst the fitter lads can always turn right at Ambergate and go up to Cromford or Matlock and back on the A6. This would get everyone riding together, so beginners could learn from experienced riders. If they only ever ride with other beginners, they will not improve much. Having two eyeballs out chaingangs a week through winter is pointless, and will quite frankly be a bit dangerous. Anyone agree, or am I talking rubbish?!
Steve	posted 9/3/08 7:45 PM     Spot on Harvey. As stated already, if you establish a regular more steady ride on a Tuesday, and a faster ride on on Thursdays, gives newcomers the chance to ride in a group and learn about group riding. As new riders improve, they can aspire to the Thursday rides. Safety in numbers in the winter too, more riders, more visible. But if you slip into battering new riders on the Tuesday rides, then its unlikely they'll come back. Coaxing new riders and making the effort to make them feel welcome is key. After all we'd all like to see cycling grow in the region.Support cycling, support new riders to the sport.
Tom	posted 9/4/08 2:22 PM     Let's see how it goes - if people want to ride steady and turn up to the ride then there'll be a steady group - if people want to go hard there'll be a hard group. Whatever will be will be.
Nick Scott	posted 9/4/08 3:52 PM       Harvey is spot on!
Steve	posted 9/4/08 5:24 PM     Tom, i don't agree. Its whatever will be, will be that puts off new riders. Turning up to whats supposed to be a steady organised group ride and getting hammered is the quickest way to put off new riders. A structured steady ride one day, and a faster ride another gives all abilities the chance to participate in group riding, knowing what the ride will be on a given day. Harvey's comments are right on the money.
Pete J	posted 9/4/08 7:18 PM     My worry is that separate rides on Tuesdays and Thursdays will just dilute the riders and you will not get as many out a given night. Having two groups on a Tuesday seemed to work fine the last couple of years. Perhaps there's an advantage with everyone riding on the same night, it gives the new/slower riders the opportunity to join the faster riders as they go by if they are feeling good or improving. It also gives the opportunity for riders to drop back to the slower group and continue the ride if they get dropped.
Dave L	posted 9/4/08 8:43 PM       I dont think anyone is saying that faster riders cant turn out on a Tuesday, rather that the focus that eve will be a steadier pace; attendees will know what to expect. If a couple of quicker lads appear, whats the issue? As long as they dont expect there to be others of that pack.It shouldnt be an 'either or', but rather a 'leaning towards'.Ultimatly, what Tom says is more to the point - it's all going to revolve around who actually turns up on the night!
Harvey	posted 9/4/08 10:33 PM       Tom is right in one sense - if only riders who want to ride fast turn up, why should they ride slow because someone who hasn't thinks they should! But agree with Steve - see what happens on the night will just mean the pace will be dictated by the fastest rider, with everyone else hanging on for grim death. We could have two start times, but that dilutes the riders. A compromise might be to all start together and keep it steady to Marehay, where the group will probably naturally split. I would be willing to form a back group for the second half. If some still want to tear round as fast as possible, this still won't work, so better of with separate times. So lets have a straw pole: Fast, Steady, or combined runs on a Tuesday? Vote Now....
Tom	posted 9/5/08 9:22 AM     I still say whatever will be will be - we tried imposing a speed limit on the whole group before - 2-3 years ago - and it didn't work. I thought last Winter worked OK - that was 2 groups with the steady lads going off first. The idea of encouraging that group to be on Tuesday is simply to ensure there are sufficient numbers to form a proper steady group.
moo crouch	posted 9/5/08 12:09 AM     I agree with Pete, surley it's better to do what we did last year,2 group's, the slower one going off first so we all finish about the same time.Also giving the faster rider's the option of dropping back to the slower group if they start to struggle.But what are you all talking about anyway? you should all be easing off for the winter soon,build it up again in the new year.Or are you all training for the cross season?
Dave L	posted 9/5/08 1:24 PM       As a regular member of the 'slow' group, what took place last year was good for me. Having a faster group in attendance on a Tuesday will at least allow me to excercise my aspirations occasionally, even if i do get dropped by Kilburn!
Clive	posted 9/6/08 10:16 AM     Ok I'll stick my five penneth worth in for what it's worth. If Tuesdays are promoted as steady you'll put off fast lads wanting a serious training ride to get fit for racing, maybe not now but certainly after xmas. If you promote it as a pukka fast chain gang you'll put off raw recruits. So surely if you want to attract the max number of riders it's gotta be two groups like we had last winter.
John Ball	posted 9/7/08 11:38 AM     I'm with Clive on this although to be fair it was my first year, but I thought it worked well. What I would like to suggest is that we use this forum a bit more to perhaps tailor the odd training ride. What I mean is I found after a couple of weeks that I was caught between the 2 groups. I could go faster than the slower group but would always get dropped going up Ripley hill with the fast group! On a couple of occasions a member of the fast group would drop back and pick up a couple of the slower group and make us work hard to the finish. If a couple of the fast group would be willing to sacrifice their training ride the odd time to bring on us slower ones, it would be appreciated.
the cat	posted 9/7/08 9:43 PM     Agreed. If any of the fast group decide to *ahem* "drop back" as i have been known to in the past, i think it's good form to wait for the slower group and help newbys learn the craft, rether than plough on solo.
Harvey	posted 9/7/08 11:52 PM       OK so why don't we have two runs on a Tuesday then. Keep the faster run as before (6:45). I propose a 'tempo' ride, leaving no later than 6:40, i.e. meet at 6:30 - 6:35 @ Little Chef. I'll do my best to get out for this, at least for the first few weeks. Pace to suit riders, but 18 mph would be a reasonable target, with emphasis on keeping it even and steady. Stronger riders ride on front, those less strong sit in a bit more. See if we can get the group round together. Can add a bit on to Whatstandwell or Cromford if people want. If anyone is up for this then will see you on Tuesday night.....
Jim C	posted 9/8/08 7:56 PM       Two groups sounds good to me. I'll be in Harvey's group - sounds about my pace for the winter. See you all tomo. jim
Thomas Peoples	posted 9/12/08 6:37 AM     What's the route description? (roughly) How far is it, or does that depend on the speed? Does one need LED's too?
Jon OB	posted 9/12/08 7:29 AM     See this page... http://derbymercury.thegreenserver.co.uk/index.php/home/club-rides/chain-gang
Chris	posted 9/12/08 8:07 AM     Was anyone out last night? I was a bit late but thought I might have seen you.
Tom	posted 9/12/08 4:03 PM     There were a load - about 14 or so - all one group - though because the A38 was closed we went through Makeney and up to Whatstandwell - Wardi decided to lead them all up Long Way Bank or whatever that hill up to the Malt Shovel is called - as it was getting dark a few of us just went back down the A6 - nothing to do with it being way too hard at all.
Thomas Peoples	posted 9/23/08 12:57 AM     Cheers, tried to follow that, but ducked under the A38 too early and ended up in Loscoe/Codnor - oops! I'll aim to be at the Little Chef for 1830 tonight, but only if it's dry as I've no mudguards and wouldn't want to annoy folks! Are blinking/static LED's safe enough for that route?
Jon OB	posted 9/23/08 1:22 PM     I haven't got mudguards and neither have most of the people out last week. Anyway, when it's raining they only seem to keep you dry, you still get sprayed if the guy in front has mudguards as the water is coming off them below the guard (if that makes sense?) The whole route has street lights. Most use a blinking rear and small static or blinking front. Dean's supposed to be coming out tonight, not sure if he's going for the slow or fast group?
Scott	posted 9/23/08 6:15 PM     That's why you should also have mudflaps both front and rear. The front one keeps you clean and dry and the back one is for your friends/club pals. Unless of course you don't care about your mates so will not use guards or flaps.
Tom	posted 9/23/08 9:39 PM       Mudguards are a good idea - like you say they are much nicer to ride with through winter - but we don't want to be turning people away if they don't have them - that seems to be the consensus. What's with people attacking off the front of the steady group though - I know it's training but if we are going to attack then why not ride with big fish in the second group?
Thomas Peoples	posted 9/24/08 6:30 AM     Yeah, apologies for that. That's only my third group ride, and the other two have been with triathletes, won't be doing that next week.The Big Fish are quick, before Belper I was with then and was trailing off the back just after, kind of in nomansland all the way to Duffield (when they'd slowed down)

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