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| Author | Topic: Great democracy in Ireland |
| Javier |
posted 5/17/04 10:01 PM
Dear Great democracy,There are not two Irelands, but only one. Your country - a champion of freedom- split it appart. Why not making a referendum IN ALL IRELAND? The reasons are obvious.Regarding your behaviour in the Esmerald Island, it is not different to the one you have carried out the world over.Please remember what the good old Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell did to the Irish at Drogheda (he ordered the defenders -once they had surrendered- 'to be passed by the cold sword'), the mass expulsion of all Irish to Connaught (west of the Shannon) to make room for English and Scots, etc. The following information is taken from the Brazilian edition in Portuguese of 'Irlanda Sangrenta' by Colonel (British Royal Army) A. J. Barker, first published by Ballantine Books Inc, directed by Barrie Pitt and with Captain Sir Basil Liddell Hart (of world wide renown) as military consultant; the re-translation to English is mine: From 1691 on, there were continuous new land confiscation and new penal laws that among other things ordered as follows 1) "No catholic will have a seat at the Irish parliament"2) "No catholic can be 'procurador' , ranger or policeman"3) "No catholic may HAVE A HORSE of a value superior to 5 pounds. Any protestant who has that sum can take over the work or hunting horse of his catholic neighbour"4) "No catholic can attend university, have a school or send his children abroad to be educated. There is a 10 pounds reward for the discovery of any catholic school teacher"5) "No catholic can live in Limmerick and Galway or to buy properties inside their city walls limit"6) "No catholic can buy land or accept them as a present from a protestant"7) "No catholic can be a child's tutor. The catholic orphans must be raised as protestants"8) "No catholic is allowed to have a gun."Please note that your Orangists countymen in northern Ireland (loyal to the crown like your Kelper countrymen) still celebrate on 12th july the Boyne battle that allowed all this.Shall we also mention the Irish genocide?Have a nice day...Javier |
| The_Great_Democracy |
posted 5/18/04 6:01 PM
Interesting and well researched arguement Javier, but i'm afraid it carries very little weight. Is it significant enough to Blame Britain for things done in 1600s, and use these occurances in modern day politics? "Ireland belongs to the Irish" but yet whom are the "Northern Irish"? do they not have the same civil liberties possed by any other people to choose their sovereign?If we assume they do not have the right to choose their government then one could also argue those nations of North and South America have a very illigimate existence. The British presence in Northern Ireland, past and present is excusable by one fact; 1) Northern Ireland has held a referendum which let the popular vote decide that British sovereignty should be retained. Northern Ireland has its own assembly to deal with domestic issues and is makes up part of a thriving democracy. If we were to conclude that Ireland should be unified irrespective of the will of the people, then we could also unify Peru, Bolivia and Ecuador under the protests of dissident Inca insurgents, who if they existed would demand re-unification of the Old Inca State? Or possibly a minority group of Argentineans aspiring to see Ecuador, Bolivia and Northern Chile rejoin the Colonial Audiencia of Characas, created by Colonial Spain. If we concede such protests be fully legitimate despite unrepresentative and tyrannical demands, then the very fabric of our democracy based upon majority rule comes into question and we disregard all for what we have fought and died for. |
| Javier |
posted 5/18/04 9:43 PM
Your quoye:"If we were to conclude that Ireland should be unified irrespective of the will of the people, then we could..."[END OF QUOTE]-------------------------------------The premise is wrong. IRELAND WAS SPLIT APPART IRRESPECTIVE OF THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. The limit was (still is) an artifitial one and was set that way to ensure that in that part the British settlers (a small minority in ireland) would be LOCALLY a mayority.----------------Britain has ample experience in that kind of manipulations. Ask the Quebecois.Javier |
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